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May 26, 2009

Where’s the Wear and Tear?

By mizerle06

usa-basketball_nbaI checked the file cabinet here at the Sparty & Friends headquarters that’s labeled theories that are assumed to be true but have yet to be proven a little while ago and found that there’s sufficient evidence to sweep one up and toss it out with the trash.  Remember all that noise about how the involvement of NBA players on the USA Basketball team and playing in the Beijing Olympics was going to wear out those players and reduce the quality of the NBA?  Yeah, I had forgotten about that too. 

Mrs. Mizerle06 mentioned something about the Olympics during one of the Magic’s lucky wins over the Cavs in Cleveland, and that got me to thinking, “Hmmm, D-Ho played on the Olympic squad…so did Lebron and Kobe and Melo.  If I’m counting right, that’s a star player from each of the only teams left in the NBA postseason.  Hmmmmm.“  Then I said to myself, “Wait a sec, Miz (yes, I talk to myself in third person, blogger nickname…is that really like sixth person or something?), Pau Gasol played in the Olympics for Spain, as did Linas Kleiza for Lithuania.”  By the way, for those of you who aren’t as big a fan of Kleiza as I am, he plays for the Nuggets and averages 6.8 ppg during 12 of the ‘08-’09 postseason games in which he’s seen court time.

Sorry for the Kleiza tangent…back to the point that the Olympics were supposed to hurt The Association.  From Michael Wilbon last year:

The Beijing Olympics begin in two months, and for the fifth time NBA players will compete. The U.S. team again will have only professional players, to the delight of NBA Commissioner David Stern, but to the detriment of the league, if you believe skeptics such as Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and Lakers Coach Phil Jackson.

PJax’s words (from Wilbon):

“We’ve tried to chase the gold in the Olympics and the World Cup,” he said. “I just think we’re taking some of our best players and putting them in positions where it’s tough for them to continue to play. I thought it hurt [Spurs star Tim] Duncan the year they went to Greece [2004]. I think San Antonio asked [Manu] Ginóbili to not play this year in the trials and he didn’t participate with the Argentina team. . . .

Kobe [Bryant] and I talked. . . . We were plotting out the real scenario from here on out for his career about the protection of his career. You know, taking care of his body, resting when he has to rest, and not doing an undue amount of work without cause or purpose.”

Jackson is using the broad career physical health issues to dissuade the use of his star players – Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol - in the Olympics.  If Kobe has a limp when he’s 45, are we to blame that on a couple of offseasons worth of Olympic training and games or the 20 year NBA career?

Cuban’s words (from Wilbon):

“I’ve said it before and I will say it again: The NBA is making a huge mistake by letting our players participate in the Olympics and its qualifying competitions.”

In a recent conversation about the Olympics, Cuban, too, worried about the physical toll on the players. He fretted over the health of Dirk Nowitzki, Germany’s best player, as Jackson did Bryant.

Cuban uses his distaste of NBA global marketing to support his fear that his investments – a.k.a Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Kidd – will be hurt.  Cuban also used his blog to keep whining about it.

Here’s the links where I got the Beijing participants: USA Basketball roster and NBA players on international Olympic rosters.  Let’s check out how well the NBA teams fared whose players were on Olympics squads:

beijing-vs-nba1
*These teams are still battling it out in the Conference Finals.  Two will advance to the Finals and one will be Champion.
ED Note: As a commentor correctly pointed out, Nocioni was traded from the Bulls midseason.  He finished the year with the Kings.  Also, another commentor correctly pointed out that the Jazz were only a First Round team, not a Second Round team.  The previous table I created stated both of those facts incorrectly and the new table has been updated to reflect the changes.  Feel free to peruse the comments and check out my responses to a couple here and here.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming…

Only three NBA Playoff teams were not represented in Beijing: the Atlanta Hawks, Boston Celtics, and Phildelphia 76ers.  Also, only 5 of the 18 NBA teams represented in Beijing did not make the Playoffs: the LA Clippers, Memphis Grizzlies, Milwaukee Bucks, New Jersey Nets, and Toronto Raptors.

The NY Times headlined a midseason article by saying “For Some NBA Players, Effects of Beijing Still Linger“.  The key word in the headline is “some” as the rest of the article seems to point out that, to most players and coaches, the negative effects are not noticeable and may not even exist.

So, if 13 of the 16 ‘08-’09 NBA Playoffs teams - including all four Conference Finals teams - had star players that suited up in Beijing, seems to me like the hypothesized wear and tear didn’t effect the players.  In fact, I’d argue that the strict Olympic practices, qualifying games, and Beijing games helped the NBA stars by keeping them conditioned and game-ready throughout the NBA offseason. 

Mizerle06 is a senior writer and editor here at Sparty & Friends.  His email is mizerle@spartyandfriends.com.  Do what you wish with that information.

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About The Author

Mizerle06 is a senior writer, editor, and copy-editor for Sparty & Friends. You can reach him at mizerle06@gmail.com and read all his junk here: http://www.spartyandfriends.com/author/mizerle06/. Enjoy.

Author Site : http://spartyandfriends.com

32 Comments

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  • cbh49er says:

    Jackson’s brilliant plan includes pulling Kobe and Gasol in the 4th quarter, you know, when you’re trying to win the game.

    /Why don’t coaches do this late in the 3rd, rather than in the 4th?  (Quote)

  • knightwhosaysni says:

    Obviously not having any Celtics at the olympics hurt them come playoff time.

    /miz > pierce  (Quote)

  • knightwhosaysni says:

    Talking in 6th person > Talking in 3rd person  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    i’m tired. been going at this blog for almost 11 mos straight.  (Quote)

  • knightwhosaysni says:

    It must be the bloglympics taking its toll on you sparty.  (Quote)

  • sae says:

    i’m tired. been going at this blog for almost 11 mos straight.

    it’s better to burn out than fade away

    /def leppard’d  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    kwsn- Beijing was thrust upon me last year. been non-stop ever since.  (Quote)

  • mizerle06 says:

    conclusion: Mike Wilbon, Phil Jackson, and Mark Cuban are idiots…successful idiots, nonetheless.  (Quote)

  • mizerle06 says:

    no comments about USA Basketball punching Jerry West in the hip up there? I really thought that would get a lot of attention.  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    i thought it was just shaking a fist at Jerry.  (Quote)

  • JB says:

    I thought they were playing rock, paper, and scissors  (Quote)

  • knightwhosaysni says:

    I thought they were about to ghey it up.  (Quote)

  • jp manahan says:

    it must be the training regimen, but also the style of play and the genes.

    manu’s playing style really hurt him, i.e.

    as for kobe, for example, i would presume that he works out on his own during the offseason.  (Quote)

  • cycledan says:

    it’s better to burn out than fade away

    /def leppard’d

    /neil young’ed (better song’ed)  (Quote)

  • sae says:

    cycledan,
    you’re right but that was the first one that i thought of  (Quote)

  • VH says:

    Lebron at the end of game 4 looked tired. Kobe looked tired. Dwayne Wade looked tired. A lot of the guys who played in the Olympics look tired. They are still playing well, but not as well as I think they could have.  (Quote)

  • Jordan says:

    Nocioni isn’t on the Bulls, traded half way through the season, retard  (Quote)

  • Travis says:

    Yao Ming. Yao Ming. Yao Ming’s fractured foot.

    Nocioni.

    Kaman.

    Bogut.

    Manu.

    Boozer.

    Calderon.

    All of them broke down at points in the season, and I think it’s safe to say most of these injuries came from playing too much, or playing with minor injuries. So, fact is, SOME of the guys from the Olympics did tire. There are a few others we can throw in who looked tired by the time their teams were finished, like Kidd, Duncan, Paul, Bosh, Tayshaun, Yi, and Wade.  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    Nocioni isn’t on the Bulls, traded half way through the season, retard

    you are correct. thanks for the heads up. now the post makes sense.  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    There are a few others we can throw in who looked tired by the time their teams were finished, like Kidd, Duncan, Paul, Bosh, Tayshaun, Yi, and Wade.

    Have you watched Tayshaun the last few years? He always looks tired when the playoffs come. Kidd is old as hell now. Duncan has been playing until the end of May for almost his entire career, and because Manu went down, more was expected of him. Yi got hurt early in the year. Yao always gets hurt at some point. Wade carried his shit team for the entire year. Chris Paul probably hit a wall.

    Lebron at the end of game 4 looked tired

    yeah, he looked exhausted after scoring over 30 pts and almost registering a triple double playing in an OT game.  (Quote)

  • cbh49er says:

    Why is Duncan even brought up? He wasn’t in the Olympics.  (Quote)

  • chris says:

    Utah went out in the first round…  (Quote)

  • Curtis says:

    Your analysis is stupid for one simple reason: Only the best players make it to the post season and are chosen to play in the Olympics. You are examining the same group of players instead of comparing them to another group of players.  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    Your analysis is stupid for one simple reason: Only the best players make it to the post season and are chosen to play in the Olympics. You are examining the same group of players instead of comparing them to another group of players.

    huh? and what group of players should they be compared to.   (Quote)

  • mizerle06 says:

    Yao Ming. Yao Ming. Yao Ming’s fractured foot.

    Nocioni.

    Kaman.

    Bogut.

    Manu.

    Boozer.

    Calderon.

    All of them broke down at points in the season, and I think it’s safe to say most of these injuries came from playing too much, or playing with minor injuries. So, fact is, SOME of the guys from the Olympics did tire. There are a few others we can throw in who looked tired by the time their teams were finished, like Kidd, Duncan, Paul, Bosh, Tayshaun, Yi, and Wade.

    sorry I missed the conversation. yes, the Jazz went out in the first round. they were still a playoff team though. I’ll fix the error in the morning when I get back to the computer that the spreadsheet is saved on.

    as far as the players listed above…

    Yao – seriously? you’re going to blame a broken bone suffered in the Playoffs on Beijing?

    Nocioni – my bad, he was traded to a bad team (the Kings) and averaged more ppg with the Kings than he did with the Bulls.

    Kaman – plays for the fucking Clippers…no shot at the playoffs, Beijing or not.

    Bogut – again, plays for a shitty team. not the Olympics fault his team couldn’t play worth a damn. Bogut did end his season after 30-something games due to an injured back. during that 30-something game stint, he averaged 58% field goal shooting in 32 minutes per game. oh, and there’s the double-double in rebounds and points he was averaging as well.

    Manu – the only player on my list that was definitively hurt because of the Olympics. 1 out of 28…I’d say the sample size still supports my theory.

    Boozer – averaged more ppg and minutes/game during his playoff series than he did the entire regular season. again, point for me.

    Calderon – plays for the Raptors. Raptors = suck.

    Kidd – old.

    Duncan – which country was it that Duncan lended his skills to in Beijing?

    Paul – played great for an uninspired team…oh yeah, and made the Playoffs.

    Bosh – Toronto = suck.

    Tayshaun – played well for an uninspired team throughout the season and made the Playoffs. played like dogshit while getting swept in the first round. blame it on Beijing if you like. me? I’ll blame it on LeBron.

    Yi – played on a bad team.

    Wade – seriously? you’re giving me Wade here? dude won the effing scoring title…first time in his career, by the way.

    who else you got?  (Quote)

  • mizerle06 says:

    Your analysis is stupid for one simple reason: Only the best players make it to the post season and are chosen to play in the Olympics. You are examining the same group of players instead of comparing them to another group of players.

    Curtis – your analysis is stupid for one simple reason: Only the best players make it to the post season and are chosen to play in the Olympics.

    see what I did there?

    who am I going to compare them to? shitty players that didn’t get invited to play for USA Basketball? if playing in Beijing had the predicted effect of making all these star players tired, shouldn’t the not-star players have come even remotely close to overtaking them throughout the season? in actuality, these guys elevated their games even more. look again at who’s in the Conference Finals: Kobe, Pau, ‘Melo, LeBron, D-Ho… these guys led their teams to dominance the entire season. it’s no fluke that these guys are battling out against each other for the crown.  (Quote)

  • Travis says:

    Mizerle, you’re not hearin’ me here. Your argument seems to be, initially at least, that the list of guys who played in the Olympics reveals that, well, they didn’t get worn down because of the Olympics. The Olympics didn’t wear them down. I’m saying we can’t judge that, and in some cases, these guys were certainly worn down and missed substantial amounts of playing time after they played in the Olympics.

    I don’t think you can even argue about Yao. The dude plays too much ball for those feet–he’s got foot problems like so many other big guys (Ol’ Man Walton, Oden, Big Z, and on and on), and his playing in the Olympics certainly, without question, added to the wear on his feet.

    I was wrong about Nocioni. I thought he had missed games this year, but he didn’t.

    Kaman’s injuries (foot) also came from wear, hurting his team’s chances at the playoffs. You can say the Clips had no chance, but with a healthy roster, they had the talent to contend for the 8th seed. Didn’t happen, and Kaman’s injury contributed to them not being competitive.

    Bogut hurt his back. His back. You really don’t see the connection between back injuries and playing too much ball? Especially for a big man. Don’t be thick.

    Manu: check.

    Duncan, my bad. He didn’t play in the Olympics, probably because his old body needed the rest to make it through the season. Supports my point.

    Boozer obviously needed the summer off! He played in 37 games this season because of his knee. Sure, he returned for the playoffs, but the team wasn’t as good as it could have been with Boozer in the lineup all season. Clearly supports my point. He shouldn’t have played in the Olympics.

    Calderon hurt his finger, so you’re right, that doesn’t count. BUT, both he and Bosh had lower shooting percentages than they did last season, and hey, guess what: tired legs = poor shooting. Maybe that’s a stretch to link it to the Olympics, but you certainly don’t get a point for this one, either. That team was flat all season, and those were their two studs. Flat.

    Kidd is old. That’s part of my point. The dude could have used the summer off. His shooting percentages were down this season, and he didn’t do much to help his team in the playoffs. Quite frankly, those old legs can’t guard very many PGs these days, and excess Olympic wear doesn’t help. Anyone could blow by Kidd’s tired legs this season. And I bet Cuban regrets that Harris-Kidd trade.

    Tayshaun did play in every game, I’ll give you that. But he was wildly inconsistent, and I know this firsthand because he was on a fantasy team of mine and I follow the Pistons pretty closely, having grown up in Michigan. I’ll give you a point for this one. He was inconsistent and his team sucked, but I bet his skinny legs were okay.

    Yi was worn down this season, too, being really inconsistent in the second half of the season. Frank said he was too “up and down” all season. In his defense, he’s only 21. Playing for China takes a lot out of you. We all know that.

    Wade was obviously fantastic this season, probably second in MVP consideration in my apartment. But come playoffs, he was burned out. I won’t blame the Olympics as much as I’ll place blame on his carrying the Heat in the second half of the season. I do think Wade’s body is going to break down quite a bit overt the next 2-3 years, and Olympic play is not what the guy needs.

    Who else do I got? How about Michael Redd, who blew up his knee mid-season? Maybe he would have done it no matter what, but maybe, just maybe, there’s a relation between his knee being overworked, the Olympics, and having it shredded like cheddar cheese.

    Ultimately, my point here is only that if I were a GM or a coach, I still wouldn’t want my guys playing in the Olympics. The rest is (usually) more valuable than the experience, the extra travel, etc. I know it means a lot to some guys, but it undoubtedly has effects on the body that come out during the regular season. Yao, Bogut, Kaman, Manu, and Boozer are undeniable examples that support my point.  (Quote)

  • mizerle06 says:

    Travis – so you’ve got 5 examples out of 28? I think the odds still lean towards my conclusion that participating in Beijing didn’t hinder the vast majority of the NBA ballers.

    you plucked out 5. now let me do the same. I’ll pick Kobe, LeBron, D-Ho, Melo, and Dwayne Wade. these guys are 5 of the top guys in the league…if not the 5 top guys in the league. they also happened to play together for USA Basketball. in practice and training, they faced the best of the best in the world. then, they all carried their teams through an 82 game schedule and into the NBA’s Conference Finals (a minimum of 12 extra games each), with the exeption of Wade – who only played in 7 playoff games but won the regular season scoring title.

    maybe these guys feel more tired than they were at the respective point in the ‘07-’08 season. but, there’s no way to know if it’s because they didn’t have an offseason. maybe they all elevated their games by playing against each other in practice, training together, and then playing together on the world’s biggest stage.

    thanks for the spirited debate, travis. I appreciate your time and effort in commenting and hope you keep reading us. I’m gonna have to still disagree with you that the Olympics were a detriment to NBA’ers.  (Quote)

  • Timo says:

    utah didn’t make the 2nd round.. i wish they did..

    plus usa basketball is a great experience, but you do not get that off season rest you’ve been waiting for after you’re team has been eliminated or won the finals..

    you gotta understand that Dwight, DWade, Lebron, Carmelo, and Kobe are great players and can lead their team despite the lack of rest..  (Quote)

  • Travis says:

    mizerle: Points for you–granted. I think it’s a debatable point, and we’ve certainly proven that. I guess when you’re making $12 million a year to play basketball, we should hope that playing competitively in the summer doesn’t ruin play in the winter/spring.

    Good debate. You will hear from me again! :)   (Quote)

  • cbh49er says:

    Paolo?  (Quote)

  • sparty says:

    +1, cbh.  (Quote)

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