The AP Poll gave up their right to crown a National Championship in 2005, the year they pulled out of the BCS.
I don’t care that they were the original. I don’t care that they have crowned their own national champion since 1936. The winner of the BCS Championship game is your only National Champion and only that team.
I’m not saying this merely because the Gators play in this game tomorrow, please don’t believe that. But understand this, we don’t use the AP Poll to decide the college basketball championship. We don’t use it to decide the women’s basketball championship either. Those Polls can pick whoever they want after the postseason if they wanted to, but they do the right thing, and pick the team that won the post season system the schools and conferences have agreed upon.
When Division I college football agreed upon the BCS as the system (over a NCAA or independently run playoff) to determine the National Championship, they did so with the agreement of the 6 major conferences. The major conferences accepted this through the schools and institutions that make them up. And while the smaller conferences were not a part of the original deal, they are a part now, and that does include a nice chunk of change from the BCS.
The AP Poll is still used by many media outlets, but because it’s comfortable. It’s what they feel they have to use, especially since a lot of their own vote in it. However, it’s a dinosaur a relic whose time passed many many years ago. If the AP splits come tomorrow afternoon, no one should recognize it as nothing more than another opinion, not the National Champion.
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So we should all recognize it as more than another opinion? AP Poll is the go-to source?
/double negative’d rekcalsa(Quote)
I thought we already figured out that the Dores are the champs? sparty(Quote)
guess this was supposed to post yesterday? sae(Quote)
it was suppose to be posted today. but when you write it the day before, you can make that mistake easily. sparty(Quote)
or he bought the bad tickets off a scalper and is totally confused. sparty(Quote)
so then, I guess everybody agrees that the AP Poll is nothing more than a glorified opinion. mizerle06(Quote)
no media credentials for this game? sae(Quote)
sae-we tried, and failed. sparty(Quote)
MWC > Big East stalkingerinandrews(Quote)
we tried really hard, sae. the
sum’bitchescredential’ers at the BCS CG and the Gator Bowl completely ignored all our requests and follow-up emails. mizerle06(Quote)I think the possibly related posts are better than the actual post. The Scarlet Plague? Now there’s a post I want to read. knightwhosaysni(Quote)
Eh I went and read it and there wasn’t near enough pestilence and famine. Boo to you Scarlet Plague post. knightwhosaysni(Quote)
kwsn- just watch any boilermaker game. sparty(Quote)
ouch knightwhosaysni(Quote)
The USC guy who danced behind Erin Andrews apologized for it. Why? He did what most guys would want to do but wouldn’t dare. Instead of apologizing he should be high fiving everyone in sight. knightwhosaysni(Quote)
Was EA pissed about that, or did she laugh it off? john(Quote)
I have no idea. If it was me I’d laugh it off knightwhosaysni(Quote)
She had no comment. Which means she was probably pissed and takes herself too seriously. I think his apology is bullshit and the USC higher ups made him apologize. knightwhosaysni(Quote)
As far as polls go, they are all BS. Humans are too emotional and can not be relied upon to properly rank teams. We should just let the BCS computer rank the teams based on performance and choose the top two for the CG. Same goes for the Presidency.
/ I for one welcome our new computer overlords. Fiesta Trio(Quote)
You would think even if didn’t bother her, she would have to publicly no comment/be pissed about it in order for her career to be taken seriously. Assuming most people out there take her seriously. john(Quote)
I have to say that I disagree completely with Trey on this one.
To say that we don’t decide the basketball championships by the AP poll has nothing to do with this conversation. In basketball, 65 schools get to compete for a championship ON THE COURT. You can’t disagree with who the champion is because you have a system where the champion has received a fair shot at that championship.
Can you say the same for Utah? They got a fair chance? What exactly were they supposed to do to get a shot? Sabotage the planes of the other top 10 teams? What about USC and Texas? They both only lost one game too, didn’t they?
Here’s the point: (courtesy of Mike Tirico and Scott Van Pelt) if you win tonight’s game, you cannot walk off the field thinking that you are definitely deserving of that championship unless you are lying to yourself. guyinthecorner(Quote)
hmmm….good pts, gitc.
florida and oklahoma both are frauds sparty(Quote)
Can we use that on the banner? Fiesta Trio(Quote)
But either Florida or ChOklahoma will be the greatest fraud in the country knightro(Quote)
fiesta-not yet. sparty(Quote)
sparty-
Yeah, that’s it. Both of these teams suck.
Kidding, but the truth is that Oklahoma’s one loss is to Texas. Some would say that puts Texas ahead of Oklahoma. That leaves the question of where Florida is. Some would say that Florida should be ahead of them both by virtue of their loss being to Ole Miss who beat Texas Tech (the team that beat Texas) last week. As we know though, you can’t rely on “stupid math” in sports. Besides that, you can’t think that Tech was trying all that hard because they were playing in a game that means absolutely nothing because the system sucks. guyinthecorner(Quote)
stupid math gives the title to the dores sparty(Quote)
We need playoffs.
/cliff notes version’d john(Quote)
The only difference between the AP and BCS method is that the BCS is a far more elaborate opinion. Humans are involved in both processes…either a simple vote in the AP or by developing the algorithms for the BCS. The method is human, but carried out by computers. knightro(Quote)
Did anybody see the thing on Deadspin the other day with Bill James asking all analysts to back out of helping develop the BCS computers? It was really good. guyinthecorner(Quote)
Yes, but once the method is agreed upon and coded, all the lobbying / kickbacks in the world will not change the algorithm and sway the outcome of the rankings. Fiesta Trio(Quote)
I love this. so you think that TTech was half-assing against Ole Miss because they were pouting about not getting into the Big XII championship game?
how ’bout Ole Miss won because they were the better all-around team because they have a more balanced offense and a decent defense? I know; it’s a wacky idea. TTech had not seen a team like that all year. I guarantee those Red Raider players were up for that game. they were playing for pride and pride is a great motivator. mizerle06(Quote)
I agree that the BCS method smoothes out some of the bigger anomalies, and brings the collection of data closer to a center point. The AP is a collection of individual algorithms: some voters weigh strength of schedule more, some perceived conference strength, some the color of the uniforms. The BCS method just standardizes the process somewhat and voids the “out there” votes. But all inputs are based on algorithms that were driven by human opinions. Just careless to say that the AP is only another opinion. knightro(Quote)
College football will not ever have a playoff. The winner tonight is the champion. If it is a convincing win (like the beatdown Nebraska put on Florida a few years ago), then there should be no doubt who the champion is. If it is a good, but close game, it’s still pretty legitimate. The real train wreck would be a 3-2 game, or something like that. That would leave the debate open for Texas, USC, or Utah to jump into.
I also didn’t really like the plus one model before, but I have completely changed my mind. Mostly, because this bowl scheduling ridiculousness has ruined New Year’s Day. If the BCS played 5 unseeded bowls (they would have to make up for the loss of the NC Game to keep the number of teams eligible) based on historic ties (P10/B10 in Rose, SEC in Sugar, ACC in Orange….), then pick the championship pairing from that. Play all of the games on New Year’s Day (or not later than the 2nd), and then host the +1 Bowl a week later using the BCS Formula.
This still won’t solve all problems (i.e., who would your teams be if Oklahoma wins tonight — Texas or OK vs. USC or Utah?). But, the only real risk is the chance that it could hurt ticket sales/ travel to one of the big games. Would an Oklahoma fan travel to Miami on New Year’s Day if there was a chance that a win could put them in Pasadena a week later? natsfan74(Quote)
i can’t believe this was your excuse for why they got their asses handed to them. face it, the Big 12 just isn’t as good as they were in conference. sparty(Quote)
miz-
What I was saying is, that it is like those week 17 NFL games between teams with nothing to play for. They are playing for pride, yes. But are actually telling me that the best team wins those games? No. Because there is no real motivator. In this case, the players have to wait a month before playing in a meaningless game so it’s even more amplified. Do you think the Texas/tOSU margin would have been the same if that was the championship game? Heck no. Texas would have rolled them. guyinthecorner(Quote)
wait, so Texas barely beat tOSU because it wasn’t the championship game? that makes zero sense. these guys don’t “wait around” for a month; they practice, watch film, prepare, are shown clips of newspaper quotes from everybody that’s doubting them, given speeches by alumni, etc. try telling any college football player prior to a bowl game that he has nothing to play for and gauge his reaction.
most of the time, yes; the best team wins. the only time that’s not true is when it’s a really close game (less than a score) and there’s been some fluky or lucky plays or the refs hosed somebody. seriously, please scroll through the 33 previous bowl games we’ve had this year and tell me which ones were decided by more than one score and not won by the better team. mizerle06(Quote)
I’d say that is the same for the regular season then…. how many times do lesser teams win by multiple scores? Well, except when USC beat tOSU, I guess that was a lesser team. natsfan74(Quote)
There is definitely a precedent for teams losing bowl games after being snubbed by a better bowl. How about Cal losing in the Holiday Bowl a few years ago, after Mack Brown lobbied Texas above them and into the Rose Bowl. Cal was the better team, but got blown out.
But, the Texas argument from this year is hogwash. If anything, Texas had A LOT to play for. Had Texas rolled tOSU, and Oklahoma won a 7-6 squeaker vs. Florida, Texas could have probably claimed the AP championship. natsfan74(Quote)
@nastfan – motivation is part of the game preparation. if Cal can’t get up for that game and they lose, they obviously weren’t the better team. Tennessee did the same thing in ‘01 and rightfully got smashed in the Peach Bowl after being on their way to play in the BCS CG but losing an SEC CG to an LSU team they had already beat in the regular season. mizerle06(Quote)
USC doesn’t seem to have a problem getting up for their lesser bowl game each year. sparty(Quote)
That’s ‘cuse USC kicks ass!!!! Fiesta Trio(Quote)
/fixed jen(Quote)